CIV: CREATOR'S HOUSE RULES
(http://www.mindcreations.com/projects/civilization/img/civ-creator.jpg)
Stefano Coletta, un acérrimo aficionado de este juego, ha diseñado unas reglas caseras a las que ha llamado "Creator House Rules" (http://www.mindcreations.com/projects/civilization/creatorhouserules/index.php) (CHR) que ofrece nuevas cartas de estrategia, cartas de gobierno, marcadores de recurso, diagramas de referencia y mucho más. Los componentes de CHR están disponibles en italiano/inglés.
y mi mujer dice que estoy mal de la cabeza ;D
nada más hay que mirar a estos tipos joder..........
ahora les tengo envidia, tienen que tener tiempo libre los jodios........
salu2
PD: estoy ansioso de probar mi ANTIKE... :P
No creo que mejore este juego. Lo que mal empieza.....
La verdad el sid meiers tenia buena pinta, muchos componentes, muchas cartas de tecnologia,mucho de todo. Pero el sistema de comercio a veces se hacia insufrible, te cambio x ciudades por x otras, al final acababas hecho un lío de quien era y lo otro, mucho tiempo perdido sumando y restando, y eso que teniamos un programilla que lo calculaba todo. Luego tenias un pesimo sistema de combate, y para acompañar, si te toca una zona pocos recursos junto a una alianza de jugadores en contra tuya, te tirabas horas viendolas venir. Una lástima, nunca llegue a la era moderna. Mejor el de PC.
Hola!
I can't write in spanish but I can understand what you say. I hope you can understand english... or better italian. For now I'll write in english.
I completely agree with all your complaints about the original game rules.
What I've made with this game is exactly fix all of these "problems".
The result is a NEW GAME that is 80% different from the original one.
To reply about your complaints I've:
Cita de: forofo27 en 22 de Diciembre de 2006, 10:39:36
Pero el sistema de comercio a veces se hacia insufrible, te cambio x ciudades por x otras, al final acababas hecho un lío de quien era y lo otro
This has been completely changed. You can exchange anything in the game with few exceptions and with rules.
You can never exchange cities, but rather its resources. You can commerce only if you are not at war with the other party and you need to be connected in some way.
Cita de: forofo27 en 22 de Diciembre de 2006, 10:39:36
al final acababas hecho un lío de quien era y lo otro, mucho tiempo perdido sumando y restando, y eso que teniamos un programilla que lo calculaba todo
Yes it is completely true, but I've made a completely automatic tool that handles all of this. It's the Civilization ABAkUS, check it out, it will work for original rules, and, of course, for my CHR variant.
Cita de: forofo27 en 22 de Diciembre de 2006, 10:39:36
Luego tenias un pesimo sistema de combate, y para acompañar
Yes, that is true, in fact we added sea bombardment, retreats, modifiers, city bonuses and more things to make things funnier and more interesting.
Cita de: forofo27 en 22 de Diciembre de 2006, 10:39:36
si te toca una zona pocos recursos junto a una alianza de jugadores en contra tuya, te tirabas horas viendolas venir
This is true and frustrating! With CHR we fixed this: new game setup distributes resources equally on the map.
Luck is reduced about 80% about resources shortages still keeping resources hide.
Cita de: forofo27 en 22 de Diciembre de 2006, 10:39:36
Una lástima, nunca llegue a la era moderna.
Yes that is true again! In fact we reduced the playing time for the first 2 eras that are used to explore and set the basis of your civilization without making it useless, you'll have fun even playing the first 2 eras.
Cita de: forofo27 en 22 de Diciembre de 2006, 10:39:36
Mejor el de PC.
In my opinion the PC game is not comparable to a boardgame only because it shares a little part of the rules and concepts. A boardgame is a totally different experience and thus requires a totally different approach.
Cita de: Gineracos en 22 de Diciembre de 2006, 10:19:51
No creo que mejore este juego. Lo que mal empieza.....
I think that this game is not so good with original rules but a complete rewrite and not a simple fixing here and there can change things. CHR is all about this and that is why we made it.
But all of this is only my opinion... :)
Bye!
Stefano Coletta
http://www.mindcreations.com
"Oks, I hope the rules work, but I sold my copy away because all the problems before mentioned.
I thought that this game was ended, nice to see that you look after your work."
Okey, espero que las reglas funcionen, pero vendí mi copia por todos los problemas antes mencionados. Pensaba que este juego estaba acabado, es bueno ver que cuidas tu trabajo.
Nunca esperaba que me contestase el creador del juego, ¡que caña!.
Porque no escucharan mis suplicas para que saquen la expansión del guerra del anillo (me repito más que el ajo, lo siento, estoy traumatizado, llevo año y medio esperando por no comprar la versión inglesa)
Al parecer "semos" internacionales.
Stefano, gracias por participar en el foro, es una alegría saber que lo conoces.
Estoy bastante de acuerdo con las cosas que comentas y estoy deseando probar tus reglas, estoy hablando con mi grupo de juego para ver si las podemos incorporar, gracias de nuevo :).
Cita de: makross en 23 de Diciembre de 2006, 02:25:00
Stefano, gracias por participar en el foro, es una alegría saber que lo conoces.
Estoy bastante de acuerdo con las cosas que comentas y estoy deseando probar tus reglas, estoy hablando con mi grupo de juego para ver si las podemos incorporar, gracias de nuevo :).
makross, eso de 'tu grupo de juego', ¿me incluye? Porque este es otro de los que quiero probar (después del Imperialism) :P
Cita de: makross en 23 de Diciembre de 2006, 02:25:00
Stefano, gracias por participar en el foro, es una alegría saber que lo conoces.
Estoy bastante de acuerdo con las cosas que comentas y estoy deseando probar tus reglas, estoy hablando con mi grupo de juego para ver si las podemos incorporar, gracias de nuevo :).
I'm glad to contribute to your forum. It is always interesting to see foreign comments about my own production :)
If you have doubts or suggestions, please feel free to criticize or suggest.
Hasta la próxima!
Stefano Coletta
http://www.mindcreations.com
Hi creator!! I only want to know if you are working in the english version of your rules. I hope the rest of stuff without translation to be in that language soon.
Thanks
Cita de: skellington en 23 de Diciembre de 2006, 14:01:45
Hi creator!! I only want to know if you are working in the english version of your rules. I hope the rest of stuff without translation to be in that language soon.
Translation of rules in English is my second goal. First of all I want to include ALL rules even from the Original Advanced Rules into CHR. I hate referring to two manuals looking for differences!
The Strategy cards will be released first of the entire manual with a separate ruleset extracted from the CHR manual itself. Strategy cards can be used even with the original Advanced Rules. That is the only "accessory" that really needs to be translated.
I've found a tool to automatically translate italian into english or spanish but of course the translation will not be perfect. For english language I can fix the errors, for spanish or other languages I cannot, so it will be a job for native speakers of that language.
I'm realizing to publish only automated translations first, to satisfy the people that is continuously asking for an english edition.
Stefano Coletta
http://www.mindcreations.com
Cita de: Maeglor en 23 de Diciembre de 2006, 10:26:49
Cita de: makross en 23 de Diciembre de 2006, 02:25:00
Stefano, gracias por participar en el foro, es una alegría saber que lo conoces.
Estoy bastante de acuerdo con las cosas que comentas y estoy deseando probar tus reglas, estoy hablando con mi grupo de juego para ver si las podemos incorporar, gracias de nuevo :).
makross, eso de 'tu grupo de juego', ¿me incluye? Porque este es otro de los que quiero probar (después del Imperialism) :P
¡claro! la cosa es que no conozco a nadie que se pase por el laberinto que tenga ese juego. Lo tiene un amigo que fue con los que me metí en esto de los juegos de mesa, pero todo es pedírselo para probarlo un día, el problema es el tiempo y el sitio, pero puede que para eso no haya problema, ¿no? ;).
Yo lo tengo ¡pone civilization :o!
Así que ¿quedada especial?. ;)
oyoyoyoyoy :D.
Yo he jugado a las reglas normales e incluso a alguna "home rule" de civilizaciones con poderes especiales y regímenes políticos. Lo malo es que nunca hemos acabado ningún juego completo porque se pone en 8 horas fácil.
Se pueden preveer esas 8 horas o usar alguna regla de aceleración de juego que permiten en 4-5 terminarlo. O si vemos que tenemos tiempo de ver las reglas y demás podríamos probar las "creator home rules" que tienen muy buena pinta (el problema es el material de caminos y demás, pero vaya).
Apúntado estoy :).
Hi Stefano. I have read the original rules and the FAQs and I have asked all my doubts in the official forum. Now I´ve got my rules without mistakes. I like playing this game like Glenn Drover (the designer) made it. When you change the rules of a complex game you have to ensure new rules don´t break the balance of the game and then you have to play a lot of times with diferent kind of people, I think. Are you sure the game is balanced with your rules?. Glenn have experience but he took a long time to make Civilization.
Hola Stefano. He leido las instrucciones originales y las FAQs y he preguntado las dudas que me han surgido en el foro oficial. Ahora tengo las reglas corregidas. Me gusta jugar al juego tal y como Glenn Drover (el diseñador) lo ideó. Yo creo que cuando se modifican las reglas de un juego complicado uno debe estar seguro de que no se rompe el equilibrio y para ello hay que jugarlo muchas veces con gente distinta. ¿Estás seguro de que el juego mantiene el equilibrio con tus reglas?. Glenn tiene experiencia y aún así tardó bastante en diseñar el Civilization.
Cita de: Nis en 25 de Diciembre de 2006, 02:19:00
Hi Stefano. I have read the original rules and the FAQs and I have asked all my doubts in the official forum. Now I´ve got my rules without mistakes. I like playing this game like Glenn Drover (the designer) made it. When you change the rules of a complex game you have to ensure new rules don´t break the balance of the game and then you have to play a lot of times with diferent kind of people, I think. Are you sure the game is balanced with your rules?. Glenn have experience but he took a long time to make Civilization.
Hi Nis,
I'll try to explain what we have done in CHR in this year.
First, we played as you did with original rules, but we realized that the game was missing something (that explains, in our opinion, the score of this game on various sites: from 6 to 7, even BGG).
During initial plays we didn't realize what is was. Then we saw that Commerce and Production were too slow and boring to do (lot of calculations every turn). We enjoyed more the Movement and Battle phases. Next I've found the ABAkUS v2.0 by Rattle and things got better for a while. We thought to have fixed the slowdown problem, but we still didn't enjoy the game as we expected, we realized that this game can be more fun. In addition to this we realized that it was too long to finish without a good clue for it.
Next I've see that we weren't the only one to sav this feeling because of the many house rules available on the net. There were many good ideas out there, so we started introducing just few of them (like OWL House Rules). The game experience with this house rule was improved without causing side effects to the overall balance. We were excited. That is what we wanted to and, just for the sake of curiosity, we tried to download all house rules available on the net to see how many other good ideas there were out there. We found many, even forum posts, and we started to became anxious to test them all. That day we started CHR! Initially we merged some well tested house rules with others adding special corrections to leverage differences and points of conflict. We played many times with 10 different people, fixing balancing errors at every play (you can see the long history of changes of CHR and ABAkUS). Every change has been introduced to balance the game a bit more compared to the previous edition of CHR: the result is a year of gaming and fixing. The last big addition to the game are spies. Rules for spies have been introduced to give the game a new layer of strategy that is to be used in conjuction with the overall game strategy. I must admit that spies have not been tested so much, but if you don't trust us relating this, just avoid using rules for spies.
There is a special chapter on the manual that describes how to play CHR just adding rules at every match giving you the opportunity to learn rules step by step without having to read 100 pages manual in one time.
After this introduction I'll reply to your question: "Are you sure the game is balanced with your rules?".
We are not professionals or game makers but we trust in what we have created.
We tested a lot these rules, with our best efforts, to give Civilization new life.
We tried to fix all possible problems we found during plays.
We do not want to play anymore to Civ using rules other than CHR but rather adding new rules to CHR as we did until today.
We were so satisfied with our work that we packaged it for the public because it was a pity that only 10 people could benefit from this.
We released it to the public even to see if our thoughts were right and to share ideas about this new game system: in our opinion many people coming from different countries work better than 10 italian ones.
Maybe that for someone these rules are not perfect, and maybe they are, but perfection is an illusion in my opinion: all we can do is fix problems every time they arise.
That's all.
Stefano Coletta
http://www.mindcreations.com
Thank you for your answer. I have download your rules but I don´t speak Italian. I think it is a new game with diferent components. I admire your work. Had you tried to make a design with another map and with new components? It is probably hard to be published but I think this game deserve to be a complete new game that It doesn´t depend of another one. ;)
I apologise by my poor English.
Gracias por tu respuesta. Me he bajado vuestras reglas pero no comprendo el Italiano. Veo que se trata de un juego nuevo con otros componentes. Me parece admirable vuestro trabajo. ¿Habeis intentado hacer un diseño con otro mapa y con nuevos componentes? Probablemente sea dificil de publicar pero creo que merece ser un juego independiente. ;)
Disculpa lo mal que hablo ingles.
Cita de: Nis en 26 de Diciembre de 2006, 01:02:54
Thank you for your answer. I have download your rules but I don´t speak Italian. I think it is a new game with diferent components. I admire your work. Had you tried to make a design with another map and with new components? It is probably hard to be published but I think this game deserve to be a complete new game that It doesn´t depend of another one. ;)
I'll translate rules into spanish, english and other languages. I'll use an automatic translator in first place. It will not be perfect, but at least you can understand what I've written!
I hope someone will revise those automatic translations, at least the english one, to give CHR more visibility.
I agree with your assertion, CHR is really a complete game that has not to be dependent on other games. However I do not own a company that can produce a whole new game so I just use pieces of other games, and for now this is enough. My first goal after releasing v1.0 is to integrate the missing parts of the original Advanced Rules into CHR to make it fully independant from the original game manual.
But I just want to fix the eventual problems on v1.0RC before that.
We have even taken into consideration about creating a random hexagonal map like the one on this site (http://www.huurwoonruimte.nl/civ/modifications.php) instead of the original one.
We will do it in the future... having a random map at each play can really increase replayability by an order of magnitude!
Thank you for your interest :)
Bye
Stefano Coletta
http://www.mindcreations.com
Cita de: creator en 26 de Diciembre de 2006, 02:08:23
I'll translate rules into spanish, english and other languages. I'll use an automatic translator in first place. It will not be perfect, but at least you can understand what I've written!
Thank you for your interest :)
Bye
Stefano Coletta
http://www.mindcreations.com
Thank you very much
Carmelo
Mi ingles se reduce a esto