Editorial "roba" juego a diseñador (François Bachelart + SAJ vs Wonderdice)

[Hollyhock]

Me gustaría desarrollar más la noticia pero tengo tiempo justo, la pongo así porque es importante y porque los bots publicitarios no van a contaros esto.

Normalmente se les dice a los autores noveles que no teman que las editoriales no se dedican a robar diseños. Esto demuestra que a veces no es así y que cuando ocurre no hay mucho que se pueda hacer al respecto.

Bruno Faidutti avisa en BGG que la editorial Wonder Dice ha "robado" (legalmente) el diseño de un prototipo que un autor novel, François Bachelart, les mandó intentando publicar a través de ellos. La editorial está ahora desarrollando y publicando el juego sin el permiso del diseñador, sin acreditarle, y sin pagarle nada.

La SAJ (Société des Auteurs de Jeux, que sería la Federación de Autores de Juegos Francesa) le está dando todo su apoyo a François, y probablemente haga un comunicado más extenso dentro de poco. Sin embargo, tienen claro que iniciar acciones legales será inútil, debido a que en Francia los reglamentos no quedan protegidos por copyright y a que el estado legal de los juegos de mesa es ambiguo. Así que lo único que les queda es el derecho a pataleta de informar de que esto está sucediendo para que Wonder Dice fracase.

En este momento la web del juego Nostromo (https://www.alientheboardgame.com/) está caída y su Facebook también.

Versiones del autor (François) y de la editorial (Wonderdice), en francés:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Último comunicado del autor (François):
[spoiler]

Dear friends, about the "Nostromo" affair.
I've seen posts stating an agreement had been met with Wonderdice.
That is not true! I've signed nothing, agreed to nothing so far... Even though I left the door opened to talk.

I've nothing to hide, so here's where I'm currently at:

In the first phone call, I was offered 2 things:
1 - To credit me in the rulebook as "Based on an original idea from François Bachelart"
2 - To design with them another game if the first was successful...

It's quite hurtful to be taken for a monkey you throw a fistful of peanuts at... Really!
But I kept my cool, still in the spirit of finding a common ground, so I made things progress. They seemed offended when I started to talk about "money", because of course, everyone knows designers are just enthusiasts who live on foamboard and spray glue!

After discussing further and reaching new terms, I received a agreement protocol "drafted" by the WD team. This document offered me the same as a royalty contract (without naming it so), my named on the box cover ("based on an idea from François BACHELART" – they refused to write "designer") and an advance on the share I could earn from sales).
All this in exchange for my silence and any comment harming WD's reputation.
I forwarded this document to my lawyer who had to fix everything (spelling, grammar, legal shortcomings and other mistakes a legal practitioner would never make) this Monday. He told me he's quite worried from the lack of Trade and Company registration number [asked 24 hours ago and still not received]. Do they even have an actual company? It's another issue.

Anyway, I tried to go down the negotiation road with the Wonderdice team.
But I was expecting a better offer. At least one a bit better than an average publishing contract, which was the least they could do in my opinion.

Two new events led me to put an end to these talks:
1 - An agressive phone call from Nathanaël on Sunday afternoon meant to make me sign their lousy protocol. Which was meant to silence me and made me accept their terms...
2 - The video posted today...

I won't go through it in detail... It's filled with bad faith and inaccuracies. For example, Aldebaran didn't sent me a message before or at when they launched their "campaign", as he told, but after he saw the issues with the community. The email (that I kept) was received on Tuesday, April 17 at 10:28 am. And I feel like I'm almost held responsible for having my own game published without me since I didn't get back to them... How could I guess this past two years that a bunch of people were developing my prototype to sell it???

I didn't feel like working with Wonderdice before, but after watching this video, even less!
I would find myself compelled to work with people I don't esteem. Who, even after being caught red-handed, are in total denial (or almost). Who would force me to work with them because they borrowed my prototype. Who would buy my silence with an advance and a contract inferior to what real publishers offered me in the past. Who complain they don't have any capital. Who show an incredible level of amateurism and think they're smarter than others. No, and no!
And to have people believe that in developing my game, they came up with a whole different design that's not mine, it's really going too far!

I've worked with the Edge Entertainment team on my next game, and the final version that will be produced soon is really different from the prototype I designed 6 years earlier.
The developing work on a game is crucial and can be very long. Gilles, Stéphane and Hervé spent many hours with me working on the game and I thank them once more for their kindness and professionalism. Same goes for the Lumberjack team who's currently finalising with me a game based on a French comic book, and we lost count of the hours we spend developing this design.
WD developed Nostromo. I guess they worked on it, hired an artist, maybe paid for the IP, ok, but they just forgot to work with the designer. Offering to pay me through a agreement protocol is actually another obvious proof they admit working from my prototype (and they tell that much in the video).

So no sirs, having significantly transformed a prototype through its development doesn't make the final game yours, you didn't get it right.
If so, hide away your prototypes guys, because if we let this go, any publisher can do the same. I've always known it, but I also that WD would understand the seriousness of their actions and that they would own up to them.

I THEREFORE OFFICIALLY ASK WONDERDICE, OR RATHER TO THE TEAM WHO SEEMED TO BE WORKING OUTSIDE OF ANY ORGANIZATION, TO IMMEDIATELY STOP SELLING THE NOSTROMO GAME.

I once again thank the whole board game community, players, designers, publishers for their ongoing response because this indeed affects our industry at every level, especially if the WD team get by unharmed.
Fellow gamers, Alien fans, I won't blame you if you buy the game, but you should know that behind all this, there's a passionate designer, as enthusiast as you about Alien, who denounce the unauthorised use of his work and who may never get a dime out of it.

[/spoiler]

Comunicado de Faidutti en BGG (en inglés). Los comentarios de este hilo seguramente tendrán información más actualizada:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1978122/communique-french-game-designers-union-about-alien

[ThoR]

Bueno, hace años asmodee ya le hizo algo parecido con timeline al autor de la web fritoxjugar. Así que no me sorprende nada.

[Hollyhock]

Parece que la editorial Wonderdice ha pedido al foro francés TricTrac que "modere" el hilo en el que hablan del juego amenazando con demandar al foro por copyright y daños a su imagen. El foro no quiere meterse en disputas legales, así que está acatando.

Traducción al inglés (sacada de BGG) de un mensaje que el autor (Françoise) escribió en TricTrac:
[spoiler]PLAGIARISM OR NOT PLAGIARISM ?

History and birth of the game Nostromo (Fbgames) :

4 years ago, I was presenting the prototype of my game "Nostromo" in a gathering organised by Edge Entertainment in Toulouse. Several groups of players played it and my prototype was rather well appreciated. I presented the game again at the TGS (in Toulouse again) several times each one being invited by Edge Entertainment.
End of 2014, a guy named Aldebaran Genest contacted me by email (I still have our messages in my inbox) to tell me he was interested by my game, that he played it during one of the presentations and fell in love with it... So good
We exchange several mails and I send him the game components and the rules PDF when he asked for them at the beginning of 2016... Edge was also interested by my game at that time, I thought it was normal to give them priority since they've been so kind as to let me show my prototype in their booth during TGS...
Sadly it didn't go any further with Edge for several reasons, such as the fact that they have a publishing agenda completely full and very little time to give to the study and developing of new games... (I have another game that is to be published by them very soon anyway).

Aldebaran finally sent me a contract for Nostromo (in june 2016)... I read it, he offers me 3% of the dealer's price up until 20.000 copies sold, then 6% from 20 to 40.000 copies, etc. His mail asks me to contact him for any questions... So yes, I'm contacting him and ask for precisions because his offer lacks a few things : no remuneration between 40 and 60.000 copies and I wished to talk about the rate that, friends designers you may confirm, wasn't very high.
No reply to my mail. I ask again in september 2016... Still no reply
Since then, nothing... and one day (a few weeks ago), the prototype of "Nostromo" lands on the desk of the team at EDGE... Made in Wonderdice, and the designer name on the box... well it's not me !!! (By the way and unless I am mistaken, I believe nobody's name appears)
The project has been rejected by Edge's team who immediately recognized my prototype disguised like a stolen car... and it would have been difficult for them to work with a publisher "borrower" of someone else's ideas, and for this specific case, one of their own.

I've always read on the forums that there was on this market some good morality and a great respect between designers and publishers, that nobody stole the ideas of others and that you shouldn't be afraid of showing your projects... I know we don't live in a gummy bear world and in the end, you have to be very careful who you're dealing with.

So PLAGIARISM or not PLAGIARISM ?

Here are the similarities between my prototype and the game presented today by Wonderdice :
I won't go into the similarities about the name and the theme of the game, to consider mechanics and components. In both games, the action takes place in the universe set by the Alien first movie, and in both cases one player is the Alien and the others play together as a team :

1 - In my game, to win as the crew, you have to gather 5 items and leave the Nostromo. WD's version : activate 5 urgency procedures. All labels are different, but in the end, it's the same thing.

2 - In my game, the Alien wins if he captures 6 crew members or if the deck of cards is exhausted. In WD's : the Alien has to capture 6 crew members or the mission deck must be exhausted.

3 - The cards of my game have two usages : They represent one of the 5 objectives to gather but may also be used as special actions... In WD's... the same !!!

4 - The games components : identical but for a few details : a board, 2 tokens for each crew member including a decoy, 2 item tokens (flamethrower and motion tracker), tokens (eggs in my game, coccoon for WD's)

5 - I hate games with player elimination... In my game, no player gets eliminated even if they get to be eaten by the Alien... In WD's neither !

6 - The movie's cat : it's there with a token randomly placed on the board, and allows for protecting a room from the Alien... WD's version : THE SAME !

7 - The board : In my game, it's built with neutral rooms and other rooms with advantages... It's safer to hide in a room which doesn't offer any bonus, and of course some other rooms are more dangerous... In WD's too

8 - Setup and placement of crew tokens and decoys are absolutely identical in both games.

9 - Game phases identical : 1 - Placing crew tokens and decoys hidden / 2 - Alien's hunt... and oh ! In WD's the Alien can visit two rooms per turn... in my game too !

10 - One of the rooms allows to store the eggs/coccoons gathered by the Alien. In my game this room quickly becomes a place to protect for the Alien player because the crew members may come there and destroy the eggs... well... in WD's also. (sorry, I didn' translate the pun about a french song : "Félicie aussi")

For the rest, there are obviously some added material, and I could make a list...
Actually, and I'm always saying this, this game seems to be exactly what my game could have been after being developed along with a publisher except... that I have never been consulted to do so. So when they tell me that two games about the same theme are bound to have similarities, I agree. There's an Alien, a spaceship, some crew members, a cat, a flamethrower and a box that goes bip... But there's also the guy who thought about creating this game a few years ago, who showed his prototype and find it a few months later barely revised, ready to be commercialized, and feels like being taken as a poor schmuck.

So : plagiarism or not plagiarism ?[/spoiler]

[Blacksad]

Queda patente que el utópico mundo de Oz de los juegos de mesa ha llegado a su fin.

Esto es una industria. En el momento que tenemos que recurrir a las leyes (o juzgados) por conceptos "a priori" eticamente claros, es porque esto de los juegos de mesa ya es una industria en el sentido más pragmatico de su significado con todo lo que es sí conlleva.

[kalisto59]

Que puta vergüenza.  Espero que todo el mundo se entere y Wonder dice se coma esa edición con patatas.  Que tenga ojito con los franceses que para esas cosas son de armas tomar,  si la gente se entera no venden un juego.

[Zamo]

Grandes faidutti y el compañero holly por la difusión.

Es como debería ser; tener a tu público objetivo de culo por prácticas poco éticas. Se tendrían que comer los mocos, la verdad.

Coincido en que, siempre ha sido un negocio pero desde que es un caramelito jugoso a ojos de las corporaciones, la competencia feroz termina desembocando en cosas como esta.

[Borja]

Esta noche cuando llegue a casa me voy a leer un tomo del Juez Dreed, que ganas me han entrado así, de repente!

[pepponne]

Por desgracia, el ánimo de estafa de algún directivo va a hacer temblar el mundillo... Los juegos se desarrollan y evolucionan gracias a los aficionados sobretodo y esto lo pierden de vista pensando solamente en $.
Lo suyo es hacer boicot a Wonderdice y sus juegos.
Por mi parte, ni uno más de esta gente.

[musicinthemiddle]

Por desgracia, el ánimo de estafa de algún directivo va a hacer temblar el mundillo... Los juegos se desarrollan y evolucionan gracias a los aficionados sobretodo y esto lo pierden de vista pensando solamente en $.
Lo suyo es hacer boicot a Wonderdice y sus juegos.
Por mi parte, ni uno más de esta gente.

Otro que se suma.  Empieza la lista negra

[mazmaz]

En el hilo comentan como pasó algo muy similar con el Wings of War y X-Wing, y ni Faidutti ni nadie hace boycott a FFG. Los de FFG dijeron en su día que "cambiaron mucho" el juego y por eso no dan royalties al diseñador del WoW ni lo mencionan como autor, pero este obviamente no está de acuerdo. Habra que ver si este de Alien lo dejan totalmente fusilado o hacen "cambios" como FFG...

[Hollyhock]

El único comunicado oficial que ha hecho la editorial es la entrevista en francés, así que no he tenido acceso a la "otra versión". Agradecería que algún francohablante pudiese arrojar más luz en el asunto.

Según comentarios del hilo de BGG, en la entrevista la editorial dice "haber estado atrapados entre sus socios: el autor, el distribuidor, y el gestor de la licencia de Alien. Les dieron una respuesta a todos ellos, pero necesitaban respuestas de los demás para hacerlo, y como tenían el tiempo en contra, terminaron desarrollando "un nuevo juego" pero quedaron influenciados por el prototipo que empezó todo esto".

Básicamente Wonderdice rechaza que François sea el diseñador original de en lo que se ha convertido el juego, porque "trabajaron duro" en el desarrollo. También hablan de conspiración organizada en su contra. Parecen excusas torpes y arquetípicas, aunque también puede ser el sesgo de los BGGros que han hecho el resumen. Ahora que Wonderdice ha echado abajo su web, puede que estén esperando en silencio a que pase el chaparrón.

En el último comunicado de François (colgado arriba), el autor revela que Wonderdice le ofreció un trato (bastante mierdoso) a cambio de su silencio y consentimiento, pero François lo rechazó.

[Wkr]

Publicidad para Wonderdice. Yo ni conocía la editorial.

[juno29]

Publicidad para Wonderdice. Yo ni conocía la editorial.

Ahora entiendo lo de NoSoloRol, gracias Sara!

[Borja]

Ni yo, ese boicot que se dice por ahí les va a hacer un daño enorme!


¡Cómo está el mundo!

[kalisto59]

No lo entiendo la verdad,  lo de  no sólo rol que tiene que ver??
Esta claro que no les van a hacer mucho boicot,  viendo lo de wings of war,  solo hace falta una buena licencia para que a la gente te se le olviden la falta de escrúpulos.  Ciertamente x-wing es un juego completamente distinto a wings of war,  Joder Si es en el espacio y en una galaxia muy lejana!!!.